Or maybe the church and state are expressing shock that nuns in mid-20th century. At least we know this now, she said. - Daniel Ucko waxes reflective. We spent quite a while trying to ferret out the exact version of this story- "a recent excavation found that nuns secretly buried a lot of their illegitimate children near the nunnery"- and never did actually find one that matched the details that someone remembered. Seems possible the change was Vatican II-era, whichwould make your friend's recollection correct at least as far asthat detail goes. Reuters. However it only really began to gain attention when The Irish Mail on Sunday ran it as a front page story on Sunday 25 May, focusing on the mass grave rather than the fundraising appeal. "Why have politicians and the Church reacted with such shock? ROMEThe Irish government has issued a controversial report seeking to explain why it was OK that tens of thousands of unwed mothers were forced into state-funded . **CoyoteBlue32**Your hunka-hunka burnin' monkey-lovin! This was ( and probably still is) believed to to beabsolute truth, and only to be expected from followers of the Whore ofBabylon, in '50s Belfast.So probably not urban legend, but propaganda. The repeated we-know-nothing stance by the garda is especially strange given that the original article in the Irish Mail on Sunday reported that the family of one of the children who died at the home had already reported it to the garda. June 4, 2014 article: Inquisitr reported Tuesday about the discovery of nearly 800 bodies found "in a septic tank " on the property of a former Catholic "mother and baby home." Known by locals as "The Home," it operated between the years 1925 and 1961. The home was run by nuns from the Bon Secours Sisters congregation between 1925 and 1961. The significant quantities of remains were found in 17 out of 20 underground chambers that were examined. One major disgrace that needs to be admitted is the vast array of cases of the church stealing and selling babies. Then why would anybody think it was standard practice in the old days. From the evidence presented by Catherine Corless and Frannie Hopkins, it would seem that the children was placed into the ground, that coffins were not used to bury them, and that there was no gravestone. http://www.monmouth.com/~ssteinhauer/bckgrnd.html, http://www.english.upenn.edu/~traister/hughes.html, http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=, http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010320/ts/vatican_abuse_dc_3.html. I seem to remember reading that a lot of this stuff has its roots in anti-Catholic propaganda in much of the English speaking parts of the world in the 1700s and 1800s. Note the absence of a Catholic spin on the story. May or may not be an urban legend, but it is too close to the BoRfor discussion of whether there is any truth behind it. Some of the certificates Catherine Corless received showed the cause of death for the children mainly involved illnesses such as measles and gastroenteritis which spread quickly in the cramped conditions or malnutrition. Falling walls. Also, you used to have to fast from midnight until Mass the next day before communion. Records kept by the Sisters of Bon Secours reportedly noted deaths of 796 children aged from 2-days-old to 9-years-old. Until 1961 this had been the site of a Catholic religious community run by the Sisters of Bon Secours. nuns buried babies in walls. And there can easily be babies' graves withoutanyone being a murderer. Phil "Interesting Facts Our Teachers Told Us" Edwards-- Phil Edwards http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/amroth/"This is just my opinion, and I look back and realise it does little to answer your question." And then of course we have the testimony of Maria Monk, who, even though some sources say has been countered and proven false, is not proven false at all. It would be interesting to know what else is in the closet? By overlaying a map of the site as it looks today, she discovered that the place where the bones were discovered by the two boys in 1975 correlated exactly with where a sewage tank had been located during the building's workhouse days. I suppose they have to every time something like this comes out connected with religious institutions.". There was no medicine and the babies were always getting sick. Many of the. nuns buried babies in walls. The baptized/unbaptized distinction is no longer made. No record exists of the number of women who passed through the home during the time it was open. The Nun features a memorable scene in which several main characters amble through a haunted crypt inside the Abbey. To me this reeks of urban legendand the makings of a great (ifcontroversial) horror movie. Philomena, by Martin Sixsmith, is published by Pan Macmillan, priced 7.99. Brian Whelan, of Irelands national police, told CNN that police are not investigating the 800 bodies found in a mass grave outside the Catholic womens home, but he did say that the bodies were not found in a septic tank, but in a mass graveyard on the grounds. Still, according to The Telegraph, Childrens Minister Charlie Flanagan said on Wednesday in a statement, Many of the revelations are deeply disturbing and a shocking reminder of a darker past in Ireland when our children were not cherished as they should have been.. A Canadian composer connects two groups of survivors separated by an ocean and by language but linked by their so-called "illegitimate" births Quebec's Duplessis Orphans and Irish survivors of . Infant mortality was often five or six times worse in the Church's homes than in the rest of Ireland, and judging by accounts of what went on there it is hardly surprising. GOD had a strong reason for not mingling with thise evil seedline. The stories also had it that the infants were the result of>>sex between the nuns and local priests.>>>>To me this reeks of urban legendand the makings of a great (if>>controversial) horror movie. There are several other testimonies of the same as well. It is possible that the garda were confused by this excavation of a site near The Home which found the bodies of 48 famine victims who had been buried there. There are 11,000 babies buried in mass graves at the Melbourne General Cemetery, and hundreds of newborns at the Fawkner Cemetery in the city's north. - Cindy Kandolf, certified language mechanic, mamma flodnak flodmail: email@example.com flodhome: Brum, Norway flodweb: http://www.flodnak.com/. It was just the thing for a bored 12-year-old on a family vacation. Special Report By Martin Sixsmith Also, it was stories told from oneperson to another over many years, so if there is an anti-Catholicbias behind it -- it is not merely the product of a singlebone-picking tale-teller but evidence of general ill-feeling towardCatholics by non-Catholics, which I suspected. And, interestingly, makes the original statement about special areasin graveyards at least a 'P'. Are the Stories True That Nuns Had Babies and Buried Them in the Walls, Source: https://www.thejournal.ie/explainer-tuam-babies-1502773-Jun2014/. "If two children were discovered in an unmarked grave, the news would be everywhere. AFRICANGLOBE - The bodies of 796 children, between the ages of two days and nine years old, have been found in a disused sewage tank in Tuam, County Galway. Have never been anywhere near BelfastAnd thus are unlikely to have been exposed to Irish propaganda of anydescription. I don't think I've come across ones where the babies were found behind the convent, but I've certainly come across stuff about nuns being buried or walled up alive because they fell in love or tried to elope or something. HE had distant HIMSELF even before creating man. "We do not know what were dealing with here yet, it could go back much further," the officer told NBC News on condition of anonymity. There is a 'miserable, emaciated child with voracious appetite and no control over bodily functions'; a 'delicate' ten-month-old 'child of itinerants', and a five-year-old with its 'hands growing near its shoulders'. Bridget reportedly told her family that William had been sent for adoption in America. "This suggests that vaccine trials would not have been acceptable to government, municipal authorities or the general public," he said. how to press delete on gk61. "Brooklyn, New York, USA | -Timothy McDaniel, to whom neatness countsNo relation.http://calieber.tripod.com/home.html. The slabs concealed the entrance to a Victorian septic tank built for the workhouse. TWO people are dead and up to 25 people have been wounded after three gunmen reportedly fired assault rifles into the crowd outside a concert in Miami. (The 16th century, folks). Once, regular houseshad family graveyards where they buried infants that didn't survive. A Google search on Maria Monk ornuns+dead+babies will find you as much as you want of the same,including some present day believers, even probably in NZ.I was in Belfast when I heard of it, and even as a teenager I found itbasically implausible. These false brethren has made the Reformation null and void. We gave everything over to the county council and then it went to the health board, so we have absolutely nothing on the home. 'I was utterly amazed when I realised that I had the names of 796 babies. News of the mass graves at Tuam finally made the newspapers last week, but I had heard of the site and visited the shrine five months ago while researching a BBC TV documentary about the estimated 60,000 babies that the Church took for adoption in the 1950s and 1960s, many of them sent to America in return for large payments disguised as 'donations'. Galway, Ireland, 1930. The young women sent to them often suffered harsh treatment at the hands of the nuns who believed sex outside marriage was a mortal sin. Thursday, 23 February 2023 Subscribe | Log in Marta Steinsvik (Norwegian) comments on a similar story from France, where hundreds (or thousands?) nuns buried babies in walls. It was made up so that people would pay for the indulgences that would free the souls of their loved ones. Investigations revealed that the sewer where the remains were found was directly beneath a former bathhouse. Yes, we do. Given the seriousness of the issue, Government Minister Kathleen Lynch has said that the vaccine trials should form part of any forthcoming inquiry. While government and church officials were quick to express their shock at reports of Tuam's high infant mortality rate and allegations of mass burial, the traits were not uncommon for such institutions in Ireland, according to Eoin O'Sullivan, associate professor at Trinity College Dublin. Ms Corless, who works on her familys farm, was familiar with the towns stories about child deaths the home, but she could find no records documenting their burials. Smythe-- "I was a sneaky little fuck, once." During the era when the home was in operation, the Catholic Church ran most of Irelands social service programs. : 2. From 1925 until 1961, an order of nuns calls the Bon Secours Sisters ran an institution at this building in Tuam in Co Galway. Is there any kind of gravestone to mark this? Just making a point here; Black and white can never mix, Light and darkness can never mix, and the GOD OF CREATION does not assimilate with the god of this world. It's so obvious I suspect that It has been done already. It struck me as a fairly typical anti-Catholic story. It is possible to make a working union of absolutely everything. Over 400 children's bodies have been discovered on the grounds of a Catholic Church run by nuns in Lanarkshire, southern Scotland. According to the Sunday Post, the revelation that up to 400 youngsters - and some adults - are buried there today provoked calls for Scotland's ongoing Child Abuse Inquiry to investigate. But I had never heard this before, in the UK or anywhereelse. So,if the nuns at a convent took in a woman whose baby died, they'd probablybury it on the convent grounds. As many as 35,000 unmarried pregnant women may have been sent to one of ten homes such as the home in Tuam. Vivienne "weren't nuns once the major if not only providers of Homesfor Wayward Girls?" It led to emergency baptism of sick infants in all major Mainline Churches. Not sure why this UL>: doesn't belong here, Phil.>>It's not that your tale couldn't fit more or less comfortably under>within the definition of 'urban legend,' it's that the point of legend>- 'Catholics are depraved perverts' - is possible loon bait and likely>to step on someone's religious sensibilities at some point. As the story gathered attention, the Irish government in 2014 appointed a Mother and Baby Homes commission to investigate other such homes across the country. To her right runs the Parkmore. Speaking toTheJournal.ielast week, Catherine Corless said she was surprised how long it had taken for people to talk about the discovery. Could that be it? "Where would they be if they're not in that pit? In 2011, she began to source death certificates for every child who had died at the home, paying four euros (Dh15) to the country registry office for each certificate copy. An inquiry into Catholic Church run homes for unwed mothers in Ireland has revealed alarming death rates among babies. But rumours continued to circulate until two local people, Catherine Corless and Teresa Kelly, set out to uncover the truth. Pressure is growing for a proper investigation. : > Sorry. Drama may also be found if the wall contains gruesome information relating to a brutal murder or entombs the body of a bricked up nun. In one chamber, the demon looms up before her on the wall in shadow form . 'The nuns left without doing justice to those children', she says. The family of Shubenacadie Residential School survivor Frank Thomas buried his ashes near the site of the former school Wednesday. In a recent interview, Frannie said that his parents told him that a local priest had said a mass at the site and the grave was then covered over again. What amazes me, is that limbo was not exactly a dogma of less importance. Created and approve by. There were babies dying every day.' CNN summed up the confusion well, quoting a garda press officer who said there was nothing to suggest any impropriety. found behind both the local Catholic hospital and>> the local convent in the trash from the 1940s on, over several>> decades. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Professor Gideon Avni (left) visited Goa in 2017. >chris 'fufas' grace (firstname.lastname@example.org) wrote:>>: Except that both the person who told me the story and the person who>: heard it (me):>: 1. On a grey, rainy afternoon, I was taken to a patch of land in the centre of one such estate. . The nuns lied and told her that "she had messed up her own life" and that her baby had been sent to America. They are the 796 babies and young children aged between two days and nine years whose grave, "filled to the brim with tiny bones and skulls," was found last week in an unmarked site that once. Smythe>> >> A key connotation of "Get thee to a nunnery! Catherine Corless then began to cross-reference the list to see if any of the children were buried in local cemeteries. Protestant authors loved to imagine the secret sins of Catholics. It seems to be just one of those ugly things that people say. Are 12,000 miles from Belfast. : heard it (me):: 1. The Bon Secours congregation did not respond to NBC News' request for comment. Like all the mother and baby homes run by the Church, conditions in Tuam had been primitive. Tales about "schools and convents haunted by : the ghosts of babies whose skeletons were found in the spaces between the: walls" have been passed around for generations. June 4, 2014 article: Inquisitr reported Tuesday about the discovery of nearly 800 bodies found in a septic tank on the property of a former Catholic mother and baby home.. This story is presented as a rumor of a Catholic writer on Wkipedia. That the nuns had buried the babies in a lovely wee graveyard somewhere, but just couldn't remember where? Beneath it were the bodies of nearly 800 babies. A swift glance at the URL quoted would have revealed that thepropaganda mentioned was mostly of US/Canadian 19th century origin andhas spread as far as the bigots have. : Don "Not the best of books but I have it" Whittington. 'They needed to dig for worms and one day they lifted up some old slabs that had been lying since before the estate was built'. Many Catholics knows one of many stories like this from their own parish. Died naturally? Run by the Bon Secours order of nuns, the Tuam home opened in 1925 and closed in 1961. Grim reports that nearly 800 dead babies were discovered in the septic tank of a home run by nuns has set off a round of soul-searching in Ireland and sparked calls for accountability from government and Catholic Church officials. Poorly treated? My friend is emphatic that she saw suchan area in a cemetery, and that it was unconsecrated. I fully agree with Lars-Toralf Storstrand. Really?I was told by an interesting teacher  that Jacobian slanghad "nunnery" as an ironic euphemism for a brothel.r.  9th grade English; during my tenure with her class, she appeared asthe lead in "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie", and led her class tobelieve that she *did* play the bath scene nude. -- America: where you can still eat the meat! She would have seen it in the early 1950s, and there probably wouldhave been a cemetery there for over 75 years at that time. Investigators said that DNA analysis confirmed that the discovered remains were of children between the ages of 35 weeks and three years. At one time, *unbaptized* children, suicides, and possibly some otherscould not be buried in the consecrated ground of a Catholic cemetary.A stillborn baby couldn't be buried in the churchyard regardless ofwhether his parents were married or not; a child born outside ofwedlock, once baptized, would be counted the same as a legitimatechild for the purposes of burying. We never had any young, good looking>priests. -- For a dining "experience" visit the "Killer Prawn" in Whangarei!Be served and charged for food *without even ordering it*!Let the staff treat you with undisguised condescension and contempt!Experience the total incompetence of the management! (Mitcho tries to convince AFU that he is a reformed character nowadays), >Vivienne "weren't nuns once the major if not only providers of Homes>for Wayward Girls?" And women have not always gone to hospitals tohave their babies or with pregnancy-related issues. They had bought the workhouse in the 1920s and converted it into a home for unmarried mothers. I bought a non-fiction paperback book about poltergeists and other paranormalhaunting-type phenomena back in 1969. 'As the diocese did not have any involvement in running the home, we do not have any material relating to it. The grave belongs to George Elwood Sharp, a two year old who passed away in July of 1917. Tales about "schools and convents haunted by> the ghosts of babies whose skeletons were found in the spaces between the> walls" have been passed around for generations. ', When the story of the grave began to emerge, a local couple took it on themselves to keep the burial site tidy; it was they who put up the makeshift shrine with its bathtub. We know theyre there now., Beta V.1.0 - Powered by automated translation. Here, we look at how the story has unfolded, and all of the many, many questions that still remain. Grim reports that nearly 800 dead babies were discovered in the septic tank of a home run by nuns has set off a round of soul-searching in Ireland and sparked calls for accountability . They wouldnt put up with priests nailing young boys who are trusted by parents into the hands of priests. The reason this time is the sensational claim based on no hard evidence whatsoever that nuns in the Bon Secours congregation callously and perhaps criminally dumped 800 babies in a septic. They died between 1925 and 1961 in a mother and baby home under the care of the Bon Secours Catholic nuns. A skeleton of a baby was being discovered encased in a wall inside the Monasterio de Santa Catalina in Arequipa in Peru.  This includes instances where people have been enclosed in extremely tight confinement . What is the home at the centre of the controversy? -- Madeleine Page, on the deep truths of alt.folklore.urban. A substantial number of these women may well have come to thenunneries pregnant and disgraced and in need of refuge, or evenrespectably widowed and pregnant but without means of support - thesewomen's children would presumably be raised with the orphans and thewomen would work for their keep. On the closing of the home in 1961, all the records for the home were returned to Galway County Council, who are the owners and occupiers of the lands of the home, the statement said. Catherine managed to get a map of The Home back from when it was a workhouse in the late 19th and early 20th century. By some strange incidence of AFU precept 1  I heard theself same story a couple of days ago from a friend of mine who wasbought up by nuns in an orphanage. Theres no purgatory either. Keep up the good work and I will make sure to bookmark you for when I have more free time away from the books. Then, like a bolt from the blue, I had a great revelation: I was talking to myself in an empty room. Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message, I just heard a really creepy story about a small town in the US, This story has been making the rounds since my mother was a child (and she, You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:18:36 +0000 (UTC), Robert Warinner, On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:16:05 +1100, Viv <, On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 01:57:18 GMT, R H Draney <, Phil Gustafson 13 Mar 2001 19:33:52 -0500. In total, she procured 796 certificates and they revealed the children had died of measles, tuberculosis, pneumonia, or simply malnutrition. Phil "unless the actual-physical-nunnery part was F*lk *t*m*l*g*", >This story has been making the rounds since my mother was a child (and she>would be 85 if she were still alive). The skeletons were not counted and the area has not been dug up since. DUBLIN // Womens groups are calling for other Catholic-run former homes for unmarried mothers to be investigated after a mass grave containing the remains of dozens of babies and young children was discovered at one such home. However, there's been another theory, for more than . Children at The Home in 1924 Source: Connaught Tribune/@Limerick 1914. "Burials within the church are likely to represent wealthy or eminent individuals, nuns and prioresses", said Paul Murray, currently leading the team. Blessings!! It's estimated that 35,000 unmarried mums passed through the Catholic-run homes between 1904 and 1996, when the last one closed, and at least 9,000 babies died. As a result, Catherine concluded that the 796 children were likely to have been buried at the site on the grounds of The Home. Barry Sweeney, one of the boys there that day, says: 'It was a concrete slab, but there was something hollow underneath it, so we decided to bust it open and it was full to the brim with skeletons. UCD historian Lindsey Earner-Byrne who has researched this area extensively has said that Tuam was not exceptional. Are 12,000 miles from Belfast.>: 2. "It's unusual for someone so young to be buried within the church," Murray said. No really? 'We want to put those children's names on a plaque and get them up on the wall. The Roman Catholic institution in Ireland operated Mother and Baby Homes, for unmarried mothers and their babies, during the twentieth century. While the deaths of these children were not suspicious, the casual disposal of their bodies has horrified the country. Probably already has. Why not include the Buddhists and the Hindus, and quite a few Atheists with the right values on these issues? A week later [my contact there] got back to me and said 'do you really want all of these deaths?' P J Haverty, who grew up in the home and was then placed in foster care at the age of six, called the facility a prison. DUBLIN The remains of children buried in the old septic system of a mother and baby home in Ireland will be exhumed and identified if possible, the government said Tuesday. The Irish and the English got around, and they tended to take their stories/propaganda with them. Charlie Flanagan, minister for children and youth affairs, said Wednesday night that there was a "cross-departmental initiative underway" to determine how to react to allegations. The alleged discovery by a local historian of 800 dead babies has prompted condemnation by officials and religious leaders. The book is long gone. The Home was run by the Bon Secours Sisters, a religious order of Catholic nuns, that also operated the Grove Hospital in the town. He reported it as a sad fact. Thousands of bones have been unearthed in two ossuaries discovered in the Vatican City, as part of an ongoing search for clues into the disappearance of a 15-year-old girl more than three decades ago. The public is outraged, and demands answers. They just lay there in it.'. I lost my faith in one incident: I was praying as hard as I could for a good outcome to a family problem, and had been praying for it for some time. Since I noticed some wiki reference, I found a good one for everyone. ', Catherine and Teresa consulted old maps and documents, gathering whatever information they could. (LogOut/ > To me this reeks of urban legendand the makings of a great (if> controversial) horror movie. UL? Good question. With so many babies perishing, the nuns had used the septic tank as a convenient depository, turning it into a mass grave. Catherine Corless Source: Niall Carson/PA Wire. It took a long time, but Catherine Corless methodically researched what happened to children who died there. The institution was called St Mary's but was known locally as The Home. Thumbs up! We are no longer accepting comments on this article. Have never been anywhere near Belfast: And thus are unlikely to have been exposed to Irish propaganda of any: description. And there are similar signs of buck-passing in this case. As the fundraising appeal began, the story appeared in twolocal newspapers the Tuam Herald and the Connacht Tribune last October. Yep. On the walls and atop each grave in the Tomb Room lies a Death Mask, each one of which is physically molded after the facial likeness of several crew members. Nearly 800 children died at the Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in the town of Tuam, in western Ireland, according to death certificates discovered by a local historian, Catherine Corless. The Bon Secours nuns released a statement through a PR company on Thursday. -- Nathan Tenny, >email@example.com wrote:>: In the very brief research I've done regarding this since I first>: posted here I've found that it DOES seem to be an urban legend common>: to many locales around the world.